---
title: "Still Human: Leading Through the AI Disruption"
date: 2026-09-14
author: "sallard"
featured_image: "https://www.dacgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/ShiftHappens-Episode18-BlogBanner-1.jpg"
lang: en
translations:
  en-ca: "https://www.dacgroup.com/en-ca/insights/podcasts/leading-through-ai-disruption-without-losing-the-human-touch.md"
  fr-ca: "https://www.dacgroup.com/fr-ca/perspectives/podcasts/diriger-a-l-ere-de-l-ia-sans-perdre-le-cote-humain.md"
  en-gb: "https://www.dacgroup.com/en-gb/insights/podcasts/leading-through-ai-disruption-without-losing-the-human-touch.md"
---

# Still Human: Leading Through the AI Disruption

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What happens when the pace of change goes from fast to “that year’s worth of work just became obsolete overnight” fast?

In this episode of Shift Happens, host Nasser Sahlool is joined by Norm Hagarty, CEO and Managing Partner at DAC, to explore what decades of disruption can teach leaders about navigating the age of AI—without losing sight of the people behind the transformation.

Together, they unpack why being on the leading edge beats chasing the bleeding edge, how organizations can turn anxiety into action, and why investing in people is essential to future-proofing a business. Norm also shares the leadership principles that have guided DAC through seismic shifts in technology, media, and consumer behavior, from E² + C² to the story behind “meet them at the elevator.”

The takeaway? Technology will keep changing. Great leadership doesn’t have to. Stay curious, communicate clearly, get close to the work and, above all, give a damn.

- Key takeaways
- ![Humans aren’t leaving the loop: they’re leveling up](https://www.dacgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/star.svg) Humans aren’t leaving the loop: they’re leveling up

AI will unlock greater efficiency, deeper analytics, and better work, but people will remain critical to deciding how those capabilities are used. Leaders have a responsibility to give their teams the tools and opportunities to evolve, while individuals need the curiosity and initiative to keep learning.
- ![Aim for the leading edge, not the bleeding edge](https://www.dacgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/star.svg) Aim for the leading edge, not the bleeding edge

Moving early doesn’t mean chasing every shiny new technology. Strong organizations run toward meaningful change, test and learn responsibly, and apply enough discernment to know what deserves investment. In a market moving at breakneck speed, alignment and communication are just as important as innovation.
- ![When everything changes, values do the heavy lifting](https://www.dacgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/star.svg) When everything changes, values do the heavy lifting

Enthusiasm, execution, curiosity, and courage, DAC’s core values, create consistency across teams, offices, and cultures. Add a willingness to inspect the finished thinking before it reaches the elevator, and you have a leadership philosophy built for disruption: stay close, expect action, and care enough to make the work better.

Episode Transcript

Nasser:
Welcome to Shift Happens, I’m Nasser Sahlool. Today I’m joined by Norm Hagarty, CEO and Managing Partner of DAC. A couple of years ago, generative AI upturned our industry. But disruption isn’t exactly new to this industry, and it certainly isn’t new to Norm. Over the years, he’s helped DAC navigate huge shifts in technology, media, consumer behavior and the way that agencies create value.
And through it all, one thing has remained remarkably consistent… a belief that growth starts with people. In this episode, we talk about what makes this wave of disruption different, the values and leadership principles that endure when everything else is changing, and what Norm means when he says great leaders should meet them at the elevator.

Norm:
Good luck on that.

Nasser:
Norm, welcome to Shift Happens.

Norm:
Thanks Nasser.

Nasser:
Alright. So cast your mind back a couple of years. ChatGPT comes out and all of these tech leaders are out there saying that there’s going to be a decimation in the industry. Professional services firms are going to go the way the of the Dodo, agencies – good luck with that. What’s going through your mind when that happens?

Norm:
Holy crap. That’s a good start. And then you begin to think about it. As you said, we’ve kind of been here before, right? Everything takes time, right? And remember that. And through transformation and change, the consumer has to change as well. Because the consumer doesn’t change overnight, you have time to adjust. And everything doesn’t come true, what the prognosticators say is going to happen.
Yes, AI went quicker. More screens, bigger platforms, more people saw it quickly. Adoption was fast because of that. But the fundamentals still don’t change. You will always need people in the loop, and we have to remember that. We have to embrace the change, we have to invest in it. I like to say, you know, three years ago when ChatGPT came up, Genie’s out of the bottle. You can’t put it back in. Now, we were using it in our Dev team. We understood a little bit about that and then we embraced it. We bought licenses for everybody. We set up workshops. We set up groups, and we began to try to understand it and have people understand it. So you take fear out the water.
You keep your head. We have expertise, we have skill, we have agility. We have really bright people. And we navigate that change. As long as you go and understand and use it, we’ll be fine.

Nasser:
So it’s interesting because in your answer you know we’re talking about tech disruption right. But in your answer, you’re focused on people, you’re focused on careers, those kinds of things. Is it at odds with kind of that relentless drive to rationalizing staffing that we’re seeing the major agencies conducting? And, you know, if it isn’t at odds with that outcome in terms of driving efficiency and profitability, how do you make it work?

Norm:
Look, the efficiency is going to come through AI, it will. We’re seeing that. We already have platforms out, we’re seeing opportunities within that. But they’re still human in the loop. In the foreseeable future that human is going to be critical to what we do. We can’t just have automation move out, it’s going to create new jobs, it already is. Now we’ve hired engineers that we would never have hired before. We’re hiring people in media that understand technology and understand the implications of that automation. We’re also going to be able to do more. This is not just about productivity and profitability. Yes that’s important, obviously we have to compete. Our competitors are going to be there so we have to make sure that we’re priced competitively.
But it’s also about quality. We’re going to do more. We’re going to do more with analytics. We’re seeing that happen now with our IRIS labs and how we’re able to connect the data because of AI, right? We’re going to see that in optimization. We’re going to be able to see more information, more data and the impact it’s having on channels and optimize against that. And that takes people in the loop. So yes, there may be less people, but I’m hoping that we’re going to grow. There will be more opportunity and jobs will be different. So it’s up to all of us to relearn. To understand what’s going on in the marketplace, to be curious and make sure your future-proofing yourself. And our job is to provide the tools to our staff so they can do that.

Nasser:
And when you say “you’re future-proofing ourselves”, are you implying as well by giving the tools to the staff that you’re future-proofing the people in the organization?

Norm:
Well that is the point, that’s a responsibility. I’ve said for years, if you join DAC and if you do leave, you should leave much better than when you joined. My job is to make sure we provide the tools and the resources to the people to be successful. How do you ask them to accept change if you’re not investing in them? It’s impossible and they see that. But then you can hold people accountable, if you provide the tools and the resources to be able to go out and learn.
I’m not a big fan, as you know, of what I call baby bird, right? Where people expect the company to do all the training and they sit there and receive the food, if you will right? Yes, we have to do some of that, but people have to be curious and go out and learn and adapt and understand how that’s going to apply in their jobs and share that information with other people. And be able to go up to people where that may have more technical skill and capability and get into a discussion. And our job is to provide those open doors.

Nasser:
So you use the word curious, that’s an excellent word and we’re going to come back to it later when we talk about values, right? But if we get back to this whole area around the disruption and the change, how is it the same – this era of change – how is it the same to what you’ve experienced before?
Norm:
The same. Fear in the water, anxiety. Anxiousness among our staff about what’s going to happen to them. Running towards the problem or the change rather, not away from it, not hiding from it. Accepting this is going to happen. Even when things aren’t disruptive, you have to understand it. We’re not a bleeding edge organization. We’re a leading edge organization. We have to understand what’s going on in the industry and adapt. That’s the same. You test, you learn, you move forward. What doesn’t work – you understand that. What works you bring into your curriculum, if you will, and spread the word on that. And then you watch the numbers, you watch the results against that, and you watch the people that are helping you drive that.

Nasser:
So you make the distinction between a bleeding edge and a leading edge. Why do you think it’s more important at a time of disruption, to be leading edge versus the bleeding edge side of things?

Norm:
We’re not a leading technology company. You know, we’re not ChatGPT. We have to understand the technology that’s going to impact our business. Look at GEO. When the LLMs came out, it was going to change the market. And what did we do? We pushed for thinking, how are we going to change? Were we right, right off the bat? No, but we certainly were not 100% wrong. We were probably 70% right. And then we’re able to take that other 30% change, adapt. And now look at our solutions today in that that space. It’s helping a lot of our clients appear in the LLMs and understand why they’re appearing, and able to put a process and the thinking in place to do that. It’s not all the same. Every client is a little bit different, but we were able to come up with principles because we challenged it early. And we asked our people to challenge it early.

Nasser:
So getting there early while doing it responsibly as opposed to… is the big distinction you are seeing is for a leading edge versus a bleeding edge organization you think?

Norm:
Yes, and you don’t chase everything. There is a certain amount of discernment, if you will. And that’s where our management teams come in. Now, both the operators that are running our offices and the group heads that are running groups, they understand what’s going on in the marketplace. So we share that thinking a lot. We filter things out that we don’t think are going to move forward, but it doesn’t take a genius to see the big disruptions that are going to come. And now how are we going to investigate that?
Way back when we had directories, oh, this internet thing, it’s not going to work. Internet directories been around forever. No, it took years for directories to really, really shrink. But we diversified our thinking and accepted that that marketplace was going to change. Same thing today, except that marketplace is going to change. Invest in that change. Get alignment with the teams. That’s the most critical thing we as an organization need to do. Align where we’re going, what challenges we’re going to take on. And our team, our senior team will understand which ones are going to be going to be the most significant ones, and we get aligned on that.

Nasser:
So that’s what’s the same. What’s different about this wave of disruption that’s happening compared to what you’ve seen previously?

Norm:
Speed, speed, speed, man. It’s faster. Yeah I’ve never seen this fast. Usually you’ve got a good chunk of time to prepare your people, to prepare the organization. And we began building out technology before ChatGPT came along on the automation side. I remember Dan, our head of technology, you’ve had him on the show, coming in and saying, “Norm that year’s worth of work we just did went away. ChatGPT, you just came out.” Wow. Never had that happen.
You go away on a business trip. A week later, you’re coming back and technology has changed again and we have to adapt. Now luckily, it’s not three steps forward and three steps back rather, and one step forward, right? It’s usually adaption and change and move forward. We have forks in the road that come out much quicker now. That’s significant. And mentally you have to be prepared to say we’re going to adapt. And when that happens we have to make sure we’re keeping our teams informed.

I talk about the vacuum between your team and where leadership or technology may be taking us right? We have to be careful as an organization that we don’t go so far out in front of our staff that they don’t understand where we’re going. That’s a big difference, a communication about where we’re going and how we’re getting there. So we don’t have vacuums where people fill their own ideas about what’s going on. And we share what our thinking is. Now that’s hard because it’s moving so quickly, but keeping people informed and hearing their ideas or fear and trepidation about what’s going on and understanding what we have to do to change that.

Nasser:
Got it. So a consistent feature of the agency has been its values. Can you talk about these values and why they’ve been important to you?

Norm:
It’s interesting now, Nasser. The values when I joined, you know, we all thought about the basics of value. You know, integrity, honesty…and I’ve got things that, you know, I knew you were going to ask that question, a couple of things I want to cover. When I joined there was disruption right? And we had to prepare the organization, which was pretty process driven at the time for that disruption. So I began to talk about three letters: P + E + C, right? The P was passion, the E was . And I believe that if we bring that to our job, to our life now, people will want to share with you because you’re passionate about what you do. You will want to share because you believe in what you do. You’re going to make a difference. Our clients will want to be around people that bring that to their business.
Yeah, obviously they need to have the technical skills, the mental capabilities, and everybody’s passion a little bit different, but you got to have something in there. And then the C was curiosity. Learn, be curious, go and find out why things are changing and different. Read. Share. Go to leadership. Try to understand more. And if you combine your P + E with curiosity, you’ll never want for anything in your life at all. Now as we got deeper into digital, we changed that a bit. We went to E squared and C squared. We kept the enthusiasm, that was critical. We added the E, which was around execution.
I do believe that strategy isn’t easy, but it’s not the most difficult thing we do. As we all know, an okay strategy with great execution is going to be good. A great strategy with poor execution will fail, right? So how we execute for our clients, how we drive results, how we’re passionate about that, matters.

Nasser:
No one’s ever accused you of not being passionate right?

Norm:
Not often Nasser. And then the C squared rather, we kept the curiosity obviously because of change. But we added this word courage. The courage in people, it’s got to be okay to say, “I don’t know, but I’m going to go find out.” That takes courage. “Oh, that changed overnight. It changed our results.” We’ve now made these modifications telling their clients about that and why, that takes courage. And so combining the curiosity with courage in a changing environment I believe can make us stand out within that. The other thing I talk about, we have offices in Europe, North America, we have a little operation in India.
Everybody asks me, well, how do you hold the culture? You know, and they mistake culture for values. Think of it. The culture in New York is going to be quite different than Louisville. The culture in London is going to be very different than Vancouver. The trick is, how do we share values? You know, some of the common values of openness, speak your mind, share your ideas as well as E squared and C squared. If we are aligned as an organization on that, anybody in our company can walk into any office and be able to work and feel comfortable and work with our clients. It’s when we’re not aligned with that where becomes very difficult. So the alignment of where we go is a key part of my job.

Nasser:
So my last question to you. You talk about this concept of “meet them at the elevator”. What does that mean and why does it still apply?

Norm:
Well, it goes back a long time. It means being involved fundamentally, knowing what’s going on, knowing what your client is saying. And it actually got coined when we were in the directory days and we were trying to move into digital. And I asked the team to show me a presentation they’re going to be giving to a client on a plan that’s coming up. And in the presentation, there’s nothing about digital. And that was our windshield. That’s where we’re going. Everything was about the rearview mirror, and we were real good at it, but it’s not going to be our future. And there is nothing about our future in the deck. So they have to go back and redo it, before they got on the elevator. When they came back, pretty well the same presentation, but in the last two pages we had digital and the digital team was actually going to the meeting.
And it was all about an overview of digital. And I said, where’s the action plan for digital? How are we funding that? How are we recommend to the client some testing out of the budgets we had to demonstrate learning. And the response was well that’s our money. They have to go get their own. Well that’s not good for the client. We had to demonstrate leadership about an interchanging marketplace. And so I began to understand the importance of seeing finished thinking, not theoretical thinking in presentation to our clients before they got on the elevator. And that’s where our “meet them at the elevator came from”. And we’ve tried to permeate that thinking through the organization, through preparation, discussion, you know, holding people responsible, understanding what’s going into presentations and decks and action plans and tests of where we’re going. And think of how that’s evolved today in a very sophisticated media practice.

Nasser:
Any final thoughts, Norm?

Norm:
Just give a damn. If you give a damn, you’ll be recognized internally, not just in our organization but externally. And your clients will recognize it and it will make a difference in everything you do. So finding that gene, that give a damn gene, I would encourage everybody to dig deep and really understand that.

Nasser:
So there’s the shift. Disruption isn’t new, but the pace of change certainly isn’t slowing down. Chaos can be a pit, but handled correctly, it’s a ladder. AI will evolve. Technology will change. Business models will be challenged. But through it all, the fundamentals of great leadership remain surprisingly consistent. Stay close to your people. Stay curious. Lead with your values and don’t lose sight of the humans behind the transformation.

Norm:
And why does it sound better when you say it than when I say it?

Nasser:
I’m not going to touch that one with a ten foot pole. So now make it happen. Follow Shift Happens. Leave us a review and share this episode with your team. If you have questions for the podcast, please email us at [email removed], we’d love to hear from you. Norm, thank you for joining us.

Norm:
That was fun. Thank you very much.

Nasser:
Thank you for joining us as well. I’m Nasser Sahlool.

Contributing experts

![Nasser Sahlool](https://www.dacgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/nsahlool.jpg)

Nasser Sahlool

SVP, Client Strategy, DAC
VP Strategy, Proove

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