{"id":155046,"date":"2025-12-16T09:24:32","date_gmt":"2025-12-16T14:24:32","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.dacgroup.com\/insights\/podcasts\/from-vanity-metrics-to-value-analytics-that-drive-sales\/"},"modified":"2025-12-18T16:07:03","modified_gmt":"2025-12-18T21:07:03","slug":"from-vanity-metrics-to-value-analytics-that-drive-sales","status":"publish","type":"podcasts","link":"https:\/\/www.dacgroup.com\/en-gb\/insights\/podcasts\/from-vanity-metrics-to-value-analytics-that-drive-sales\/","title":{"rendered":"From Vanity Metrics to Value: Analytics That Actually Drive Sales\u00a0"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"featured_media":155153,"menu_order":0,"template":"","meta":{"content-type":""},"podcasts-service-type":[],"podcast-category":[],"class_list":["post-155046","podcasts","type-podcasts","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry"],"acf":{"publish_date":"20251214","expert_source":"dac-team","author":87604,"duration":"14 minutes","title":"From Vanity Metrics to Value: Analytics That Actually Drive Sales\u00a0","hero":{"type":"video","hero_image":null,"hero_video":"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=E6EAMNghhmU"},"podcast_iframe":"<iframe height=\"200px\" width=\"100%\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless src=\"https:\/\/player.cohostpodcasting.com\/09a54ecf-87b9-4112-a0e3-ddecb4e68ae3\/38475c72-7157-4f79-8f58-8329857754e2\"><\/iframe> ","promotional_listen_text":"Listen now on your favorite platform","content":"<p data-start=\"66\" data-end=\"159\">Are your dashboards full of impressive-looking data that doesn\u2019t actually drive the business?<\/p>\r\n<p data-start=\"161\" data-end=\"387\">In this episode of Shift Happens, DAC\u2019s SVP of Client Strategy, Nasser Sahlool, sits down with Dan Temby, SVP of Technology &amp; Analytics, to unpack why marketers chase vanity metrics \u2014 and what they should be measuring instead.<\/p>","tips":{"tips_title":"Key takeaways","tips":[{"tip_image":155038,"tip_title":"Vanity metrics create noise; value metrics create impact. ","tip_content":"Marketers must shift from clicks and impressions to measures that prove real business outcomes like lifetime value. \r\n\r\n"},{"tip_image":155038,"tip_title":"Better analysis beats bigger dashboards. ","tip_content":"Dashboards describe the past, but decision science turns data into forward-looking guidance that drives smarter strategic bets."},{"tip_image":155038,"tip_title":"AI only works when the data speaks the same language. ","tip_content":"Curated datasets and semantic layers are essential for meaningful AI-powered analytics."},{"tip_image":155038,"tip_title":"IRIS unlocks conversational intelligence. ","tip_content":"IRIS, DAC\u2019s operating system combines curated data, semantic definitions, and AI agents to produce real-time, strategic insights."},{"tip_image":155038,"tip_title":"This shift pays off. ","tip_content":"Aligning teams around value metrics leads to stronger long-term performance, including measurable gains like a 15% ROAS uplift."}]},"transcript":"<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Welcome to Shift Happens - the art, science, and chaos of modern marketing. Each episode unpacks the forces reshaping marketing from AI and data to privacy, creative and performance, and asks experts how they transform disruption into advantage.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:1,&quot;335551620&quot;:1,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nasser:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:1,&quot;335551620&quot;:1,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:0,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:278}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">In this first episode,\u00a0I\u2019ll\u00a0be joined by Dan Temby, the Senior Vice President of Technology and Analytics, here at DAC to talk about how marketers can shift from vanity to value metrics, to\u00a0actually proving\u00a0business impact.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:1,&quot;335551620&quot;:1,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:0,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:278}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">So recently, I heard someone ask us,\u00a0\u201cwe have dashboards full of metrics. But how do we know if any of this\u00a0actually drives\u00a0sales?\u00a0Or if\u00a0we're\u00a0reporting vanity numbers?\u201d\u00a0And\u00a0that's\u00a0exactly what\u00a0we're\u00a0going to explore today. How marketers can shift from vanity metrics to value metrics that\u00a0actually prove\u00a0business impact. And who better to talk to about this than somebody who knows a thing or two about vanity?\u00a0My good friend, Dan.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:1,&quot;335551620&quot;:1,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:0,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:278}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">I\u00a0wasn't\u00a0expecting\u00a0that,\u00a0but I\u00a0don\u2019t\u00a0mind,\u00a0I\u2019ll\u00a0allow it.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nasser:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">There,\u00a0you'll\u00a0allow it.\u00a0So\u00a0let's\u00a0start here. Why do marketers still get stuck on vanity metrics like impressions\u00a0for example?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Right. Well, I mean, they tell a story, but they're...vanity metrics are easy and they kind of feel like progress, but they're not necessarily the same as real business impact. There's a correlation often, but there's not always a causal relationship. I think there's inertia at play. A lot of businesses are used to recording those metrics. They've been around a long time now. Those metrics have been a staple at the boardroom table for many years. So that organisational inertia, forces us to sort of keep reporting on these same metrics.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">And again, they can be an indicator, of\u00a0what's\u00a0going on, but\u00a0they're\u00a0not really connected to, to value the same way.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nasser:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Okay.\u00a0So,\u00a0if you think of it that way, like, give me an idea of how this can be applied elsewhere.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">I told a story recently, my wife is a personal trainer, as you know,\u00a0and,\u00a0she yells at her clients a lot of times for weighing themselves every day.\u00a0They check their weight every day. And that way to your weight is not a good\u00a0indication\u00a0of your fitness level. And\u00a0that's\u00a0what people want. They want to be\u00a0fit\u00a0and they want to be healthy. And your weight is just an indicator of that. You can lose muscle and think that\u00a0you're\u00a0losing weight, but\u00a0you're\u00a0actually getting\u00a0less fit, less strong.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">And conversely, you can gain weight. And\u00a0that's\u00a0actually because\u00a0you're\u00a0putting on quality muscle tissue.\u00a0So,\u00a0I've\u00a0heard her\u00a0actually yell\u00a0at her clients about, you need to eat more food to get healthy and lose weight. And\u00a0that's\u00a0counterintuitive. And\u00a0that's\u00a0sometimes what we find, in a marketing program\u00a0-\u00a0\u00a0we\u00a0need to focus on metrics that may not be\u00a0satisfying\u00a0\u00a0that\u00a0immediate need,\u00a0that immediate behavior, that recurring, behavior that\u00a0we've\u00a0had, looking at those metrics and focus on different things.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nasser:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:1,&quot;335551620&quot;:1,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:0,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:278}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">I feel personally attacked with that story.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yeah. I was trying to not make it about you, but\u00a0let's\u00a0make it\u00a0about you.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nasser:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">All right. Thank you. So if I were to summarise a vanity metric tells you something, but not necessarily something that really matters, right? <\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Not all the time.\u00a0That's\u00a0right.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nasser:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Okay, so as we think about what to measure\u00a0instead,\u00a0if clicks\u00a0don't\u00a0equal customers, what should marketers be measuring?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:1,&quot;335551620&quot;:1,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:0,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:278}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Well\u00a0it's\u00a0really about value not volume.\u00a0That's\u00a0hard. E-commerce is a tough business. You\u00a0know,\u00a0we've\u00a0got a strong drive to make sales today.\u00a0You're\u00a0only as good as what happened yesterday. As the holidays approach, all eyes turn to the numbers on an hourly basis, and I totally understand that. Right? But\u00a0it's\u00a0sometimes in fits and starts.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">That's\u00a0very important. But when you zoom out and look at the overall program strategy, we really try to look at how we can move away from that type of thinking.\u00a0We've\u00a0recently worked with a luxury menswear retailer where\u00a0we've\u00a0nudged the program, thinking away from how many sales have we gotten in this given period and are we getting the right people in to buy the right stuff at the right time?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Because when we consider lifetime value, it can be far more beneficial long term as part of a strategy to look at saying, did we get the right people who are inclined to buy more frequently, to buy the right kind of products that statistically will bridge them into buying higher ticket items? And if we can do that,\u00a0it'll\u00a0sometimes contradict what we might see in a traditional how many sales yesterday report.\u00a0But push us to a year from now or maybe even shorter time horizon,\u00a0having a much better story to tell in terms of total value.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nasser:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">So how do you go about doing that? How do you shift that way of looking at the business and looking at business impact?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">It's\u00a0tough. I mean, you\u00a0have to\u00a0have a team\u00a0that's\u00a0ready to think that way.\u00a0And, and\u00a0maybe move\u00a0away from\u00a0what's\u00a0traditional, specifically here we looked at, product pathing.\u00a0So\u00a0what products led to the high value stuff that we looked for? We looked at post code analysis to understand geography. And if there was a specific target, area that we should refactor the campaign around. And then ultimately that changed our approach to category level bidding,\u00a0media targets,\u00a0measurement overall.\u00a0And really got us to help bind the connection between the activity digitally to those in-store sales, which were\u00a0really high\u00a0value. And again, it takes a bit of a team effort and then some education and some togetherness\u00a0that's\u00a0required\u00a0with everyone involved.\u00a0It was\u00a0pretty powerful\u00a0when it comes together.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:1,&quot;335551620&quot;:1,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:0,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:278}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:1,&quot;335551620&quot;:1,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:0,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:278}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nasser:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:1,&quot;335551620&quot;:1,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:0,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:278}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">So\u00a0you talk about being powerful. What was the impact of that kind of shift in mindset?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:1,&quot;335551620&quot;:1,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:0,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:278}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:1,&quot;335551620&quot;:1,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:0,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:278}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">I mean, numbers like 15% increase in overall ROAS\u00a0over a given\u00a0period of time. Again, if you narrow the window down on a given day, maybe not as good, but when you zoom out across a financial quarter or a period, we start to see the numbers moving and we wound up 15% ahead, by taking that lifetime value approach as opposed to the sort of what have you done for me lately approach.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nasser:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">So\u00a0while clicks make noise and conversions carry impact, lifetime value drive strategy.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Absolutely.\u00a0Yeah. Absolutely it does.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nasser:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">And strategy has a lasting impact for sure. So how do we help clients move from dashboards to decisions?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">I think dashboards\u00a0are important. Everybody wants to know, you know, what happened and where\u00a0we're\u00a0going. And if the colors of the right colors and the lines are moving in the right direction.\u00a0But I think if we can turn the data behind a dashboard into direction,\u00a0there's\u00a0this constant struggle with analytics between are we telling a story retroactively, or are we telling a prospective story about what can happen next? And what\u00a0we're\u00a0talking about here when we talk about data science and decision science and there's science involved, it\u00a0doesn't\u00a0mean\u00a0it's\u00a0perfect.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">It doesn't mean\u00a0it's\u00a0guaranteed. It means that\u00a0there's\u00a0some rigor and some structure around it where\u00a0we've\u00a0identified\u00a0patterns.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nasser:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Sorry.\u00a0Explain that when you say there's science involved, it\u00a0doesn't\u00a0mean\u00a0it's\u00a0perfect. Like, I wrote two things at odds with each other?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">I mean, this is you can\u00a0open up\u00a0a can of worms\u00a0and a broader debate about science\u00a0generally here.\u00a0But the very definition, of science\u00a0as\u00a0a vocation, as a field, as an approach,\u00a0it's\u00a0about\u00a0iteration and experimentation\u00a0and\u00a0eliminating\u00a0what's\u00a0wrong just as much as it is about\u00a0identifying\u00a0what's\u00a0right.\u00a0So\u00a0it's\u00a0not about being 100% certain.\u00a0It's\u00a0about\u00a0establishing\u00a0a level of confidence that gives you the courage to make a different bet.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Right.\u00a0So\u00a0if we can look at it that way, when we spend marketing dollars,\u00a0we're\u00a0kind of gambling. We\u00a0don't\u00a0know\u00a0what's\u00a0going to happen tomorrow. Something major could happen tomorrow.\u00a0we just\u00a0don't\u00a0know, right? But\u00a0there's\u00a0enough history and enough signals in our past to give us confidence to say, if I put money here,\u00a0I'm\u00a0probably going\u00a0to get this outcome.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">The more of that analysis we can do, we can get a higher level of confidence on that bet. No guarantees. But again, if everyone's willing to say, hey, let's make this bet because we might find a way to optimise or get outside some local maximum and find a new maximum. But that again comes with this scientific approach to experimentation.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nasser:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Well, hopefully the bet that\u00a0we're\u00a0making\u00a0isn't\u00a0roulette, but something like blackjack, right?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yeah.\u00a0Yeah, exactly. You can make a\u00a0that's\u00a0a\u00a0really good\u00a0thing. If\u00a0you're\u00a0making a...look\u00a0at you go, you can look at the data\u00a0that's\u00a0in front of you and help that to evaluate the decision based on math\u00a0that's\u00a0going to decide on your next, your next move.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">And\u00a0that's\u00a0basically what\u00a0we're\u00a0trying to do. And again, dashboards have the source fuel to do that. But they\u00a0don't\u00a0help you make that next decision.\u00a0That's\u00a0where the decision science comes into it.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nasser:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">All right.\u00a0So\u00a0let's\u00a0talk a little bit about that next step in that decision science.\u00a0As we think about the future of analytics how is the analytics space evolving and what should marketers prepare for?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:1,&quot;335551620&quot;:1,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:0,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:278}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Well, I mean, this is the longest conversation\u00a0I've\u00a0had in some time, but we\u00a0haven't\u00a0said AI at all.\u00a0So\u00a0we're\u00a0saying for the first time\u00a0now. And obviously\u00a0that's\u00a0a big part of it.\u00a0There's\u00a0no hiding the fact that AI and the availability of, like, amazing compute gives us the ability to do much more of this at scale quickly.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">I think\u00a0it's\u00a0the reason that this topic is so heightened right now.\u00a0Everyone's\u00a0talking about this. They want to know.\u00a0It's\u00a0not... you\u00a0can't\u00a0just have data and AI and jam them together and get magic out of it.\u00a0That's\u00a0not going to work. And\u00a0we've\u00a0suffered through that a little bit.\u00a0We've\u00a0tried and failed thinking that, hey, if\u00a0I've\u00a0got an unbelievable language model and\u00a0I've\u00a0got\u00a0a pretty good\u00a0data set, if I can connect the two together,\u00a0I'm\u00a0going to get great insights.\u00a0And the truth is, you wind up chasing your tail for a long time.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nasser:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Why is that?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">I think to get AI to work properly, you know, you need curated data, which is, you know,\u00a0validated\u00a0and correct. You need it to be connected so it\u00a0can't\u00a0be disparate and isolated. You need things to be in one spot. But more crucially, as we look to AI and its influence on data science and\u00a0analytics generally, is\u00a0this idea of semantic layers.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">How do we describe the data so that the AI model understands it? When our analysts go and look at a data set\u00a0-\u00a0\u00a0they're\u00a0coming in with this implicit understanding of exactly why\u00a0they're\u00a0looking at\u00a0what\u00a0they're\u00a0looking at, what it means, what the realities of the business might be, internal taxonomy and other language, complexities. So, to equip your data to work in the AI world, that creation of these semantic\u00a0layers is\u00a0very important.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">And though semantically, you think of them as like, a handbook or a map that describes the business context of the data itself. And\u00a0that's\u00a0very, very important\u00a0for AI, so that you can use that in a\u00a0really productive\u00a0way.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nasser:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">So can you talk a little bit about how\u00a0you're\u00a0applying that,\u00a0kind of the\u00a0semantic, description of data in, you know, I know\u00a0you've\u00a0been building for\u00a0for\u00a0a while now\u00a0our operating system or agency operating system, with AI at its base and from the ground up, which we call IRIS. Can you talk a little bit about that? And how\u00a0you've\u00a0been working with the data for it to\u00a0actually work?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Sure. Remember when I said, if you just get data and AI put it together\u00a0doesn't\u00a0work?\u00a0That's\u00a0how I know. Because\u00a0we've\u00a0tried that a few times. We got there\u00a0in the end, we ask\u00a0an AI\u00a0agent to build a scatterplot that brings together, you know, 4 or 5 metrics around a set of dimensions, and it took a million tokens and 37 tool calls to get this very pedestrian outcome. And then you ask a follow up question and the whole thing broke down.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">So\u00a0we've\u00a0worked very closely with our partners, at\u00a0Snowflake, and our internal data engineering team to understand the nuances involved in creating these playbooks and these semantic layers. And they give us a\u00a0really powerful\u00a0ability to really turn on what\u00a0we're\u00a0calling\u00a0sort of conversational\u00a0intelligence.\u00a0It's\u00a0like having someone in the room that can perform these analyses, execute these models, give you a valid opinion.\u00a0With all the confidence scores that you would expect, in a sort of real time nature, which makes it\u00a0a very powerful\u00a0tool when\u00a0you're\u00a0especially when\u00a0you're\u00a0in rooms. Earlier I talked about being in the right rooms with the right people and getting everyone aligned around, a certain vision. It can make it easier for them to understand when\u00a0you're\u00a0working in a conversational context and\u00a0it's\u00a0not, okay,\u00a0here's\u00a0the way we want to do the data scientist run off and do that in isolation.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Being able to do that together with the people that are involved in the business is\u00a0very powerful. So,\u00a0IRIS\u00a0is\u00a0a really interesting\u00a0project. And\u00a0we're\u00a0leveraging\u00a0a lot of really\u00a0cutting edge\u00a0technologies, but absolutely, you know, carefully curated AI models with the right\u00a0instructions down to semantic definitions of our data and then our data put in the right spot, connected the right way.\u00a0And when those three things come together, you can get\u00a0really powerful\u00a0outcomes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nasser:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">So,\u00a0in other words, AI amplifies strategy, but only if the data speaking the same language.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yeah, you know, we need to interpret and it's and it's powerful and incredible as this technology\u00a0and\u00a0I urge anybody listening to this, if they haven't really considered that union of the data and the AI, especially if they want to start talking about advanced analysis beyond trivial metrics, like we started this conversation about vanity metrics, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">That's\u00a0easy.\u00a0We're\u00a0talking about making real\u00a0analyses\u00a0for big decisions that are going to make big bets on large budgets.\u00a0You've\u00a0got to get these pieces in line. And exactly\u00a0that'll\u00a0that will really be an\u00a0there's\u00a0not going to be a marketing or media analytics strategy that\u00a0doesn't\u00a0have this in the middle of it. You know, as we go into 26 and beyond,\u00a0that's\u00a0just not going to happen.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Nasser:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:1,&quot;335551620&quot;:1,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:0,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:160,&quot;335559740&quot;:278}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Okay.\u00a0So\u00a0here's\u00a0the shift. Vanity metrics might make dashboards look busy, but value metrics prove impact. Smarter marketing means measuring what truly drives the business forward. Now make it happen. Follow\u00a0Shift\u00a0Happens where you get your podcasts. Leave us a review and share it with your team. Thank\u00a0you,\u00a0Dan\u00a0for your time today.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Dan:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span data-contrast=\"auto\">Thanks, Nasser.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span>","contributing_experts":[{"expert_source":"dac-team","expert":87604},{"expert_source":"dac-team","expert":87610}],"external_links":{"youtube_link":"https:\/\/youtu.be\/E6EAMNghhmU?si=xQRDRoVkb3fpTjwC ","amazon_link":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/ca\/podcast\/inside-the-funnel\/id1533975355","apple_link":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/ca\/podcast\/inside-the-funnel\/id1533975355","spotify_link":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/episode\/3OCgkY8TEWtf5HrY7TFueB?si=536004392e8941c5"}},"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v23.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>From Vanity Metrics to Value: Analytics That Actually Drive Sales\u00a0 | DAC<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Discover why vanity metrics fall short and how value-focused analytics can unlock real business impact. 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